I'm Right, You're Wrong: How the Polarity Trap Is Holding You Back

Do you know someone who always has to be right?

Or maybe you have found yourself stuck in that exhausting loop where you just cannot see eye to eye with someone, no matter how hard you try. You know they are wrong. They are equally convinced you are. And somehow, nobody ever moves.

In this episode, Phil and Pen give you the awareness and the tools to break free from the 'I'm right, you're wrong trap' for good, so you can stop falling out with people, stop going round in circles, and start having conversations that actually move things forward.

Phil and Pen explore one of the most common and costly patterns in human behaviour: getting locked into an I'm right, you're wrong mindset. Otherwise known as 'Polarity Thinking.' At work, at home, on the road, Polarity Thinking shows up everywhere. And most of the time, we do not even realise we are doing it.

From the science behind why our brains are wired to dig in and fight, to the moment two drivers lock eyes on a narrow country lane and neither will back down, this episode is packed with real-world examples and simple, practical tools that will change how you handle every difficult conversation from this point forward.

In this episode you'll discover:

• Why we default to right and wrong thinking, a deeper look at polarity thinking and why it is so hard to snap out of it
• How to spot when you or someone else has got stuck in the trap before it escalates into conflict
• Why the answer is never just compromise and what actually works instead
• Six simple tools to raise your awareness and stop the pattern in its tracks

By the end of this episode, you will never look at a disagreement the same way again. Because the problem is almost never the issue. It is the trap.

More from The Polarity Trap in the 4D Human Being Managing Difficult Conversations series, coming soon to 4D On Demand. And do not miss the next episode of the 4D Human Being Podcast, where Phil and Pen go beyond awareness and into how you actually break free from polarity thinking for good.

Transcript

When People Feel Difficult

SPEAKER_01 0:00

We often don't even think we're in a difficult conversation, we just think we're with a difficult person. Oh my goodness, Ben, that's gonna be the quote, isn't it? That is it's so true. It's so oh my goodness. Our lovely prefrontal cortexes of our wonderful rational brains know that so much of the time there cannot only be two choices to live or to think. Like it's it's so reductive. And yet this is what the polarity thinking does. Am I currently seeing just the upside of my position and the downside of theirs? Polarities are easy. If you have caught yourself in a polarity response, I'm afraid, and look, I stand here with you. It's the lazy response. Hello, my name's Philip Walla. My name is Penelope Waller, and we are two of the directors at 4D Human Being. And welcome to the 4D Human Being Podcast. What's it all about, Pen? It's all about your personal and professional relationships, it's about your communication skills, how you lead, how you work and build teams, how you are looking after yourself and your well-being, and how you are much more at choice. What do we mean by that? Well, sometimes we can get a little caught in patterns in life and we can all be a little bit on our automatic pilot. So 40 human being is all about helping us get back to choice and being a four-dimensional human being, and your fourth dimension, of course, is intention. So whether it's about your impact, your leadership style, your team dynamics, whether it's about your well-being, whether it's about your communication or your presentation skills. Anything that involves human beings interacting with other human beings, 4D Human Being are here to help. We're gonna take a deep dive and look at some tools, insights, theories that are gonna help you go from a 3D human doing to a 4D human being so that you can happen to the world rather than the world simply happening to you. Alright, definitely hearing things through your airpods. That's the crucial thing. Say something. Something, something. Okay, definitely, definitely coming through the airpods. Sometimes you've just got to put your foot over the start line, haven't you? You've just got to go and hope for the best, Phil. Well, it's an interesting one, isn't it? It's interesting because I did we did talk about hope and not putting too much on hope, but sometimes it's all you have left. It's all you've got, it's all you've got. Well, it's it's the environment, isn't it, Phil? As we so often speak about, when you're in a different environment, it can be a little challenging. Exactly. So, transatlantic tech, well done. Let's hope it works. What I'm gonna say, Phil, loving it here over in Canada. Yeah. A lot of clams. I thought you said clans with an N. I was thinking, oh that's a Scottish inheritance. You mean clams as in shellfish. Breaded cra clams, baked clams, clam chowder. Yeah. It's clamastic. Clamastic. Well, talk about that would be a good name for a cafe. Well, talk about the environment shaping our culture. You know, it's like lobster rolls in Maine, isn't it? You know, it's what are you gonna do? You're on the sea. Yeah, you're on the sea. It's you know, it's every kind of potato in Ireland, it's you know, it's pies over here, it's the kind of bread we have, it's croissants in France, you know, it's shaped by what's available, isn't it? Yeah. But you know, I might look them up, Phil, because I have enjoyed the clam action. And I'm just wondering if I've had some sort of boost of an unexpected vitamin or something. I mean, there must be something quite specific in a clam, I think. I'm literally writing down the word clam. Clam vitamin, I don't know what it is. Do you feel energized?

unknown 4:00

I do.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Or do you do you think that's general hysteria at the last couple of weeks of travel? I think it's been a lot of travel, so I don't know. But you know, the clam is. I've kept my head above the waterline feeling. Yeah, well, there we go. The hero that is the clam. Oh, dear, very nice.

What Polarity Thinking Really Is

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Okay, so welcome to episode one of a two-part special on polarity thinking. Yeah. Good, bad, right, wrong. Yeah. We all recognise it. So before we start, I can say that this is one of the videos in one of the modules in our very soon-to-be-live new 4D on demand series, woo-hoo, managing difficult conversations. And I'm not sure I've met a human being who couldn't use a really, really good, useful, practical, brilliant series on managing difficult conversations. Because I imagine nobody goes through life without a few of those. Well, and I think, Phil, what this topic points out beautifully is how we often don't even think we're in a difficult conversation, we just think we're with a difficult person. Oh my goodness, Penn, that's gonna be the quote, isn't it? That is it's so true. It's so oh my goodness. Maybe, maybe we should retitle the series Managing Difficult People. Because it's what we actually think, isn't it? Exactly. Do you know what I was thinking about, Penn? I was thinking about polarity thinking, the polarity mindset. And just to sort of recap, that's when you know we get entrenched, we get stuck, and we, you know, we cannot, cannot, cannot see any value in the other person's opinion. Yeah. And I was thinking about, and this is the first of two episodes, by the way. We're gonna do two episodes, one today on what is polarity thinking, why is it a trap that's holding you back, and how can you raise your awareness on when you get caught in it. And then the second episode is gonna be about breaking free, going from polarity, right, wrong, that stuckness, that disagreement, that I have a difficult person in my team, they're always difficult, always, always, never, never, always, always that thinking, into tools to actually move not just to be aware of it, but to break free from it, get to integration, not just compromise. We're gonna be really clear. This isn't about ending up with kind of like, oh, I'm not very happy and they're not very happy with the solution. It's about integration, really exciting, really creative. I think the the word is really useful in itself, polarity. Yeah, I think you came across this through your psychotherapy a lot, use it a lot. If I'm honest, it's not a word I I'd used before. Yeah, I think we use the terminology of right and wrong, but this is a bit more nuanced than that, isn't it? Yes, exactly, because once you start to understand polarity thinking, it's a very, very good tool for your own personal development because a lot of us get caught in there's nothing I can do, I've got I've got no choice, or we might get caught in I have to run at 100 miles an hour and and and operate like this, or I'll fail, or I'll lose everything. And and we hear this all the time in coaching and um therapy that the mind gets caught in this trap that either you work yourself into illness or everything will fall apart, you'll be homeless, your family will you know have nothing, your partner will leave you. Like it goes to it goes to everything. I'll I'll be nothing unless I'm everything. Yeah. So polarity thinking is both for ourselves, and of course, we're really gonna talk today about how it shows up in dialogue and relationship. And as I was reflecting on this first episode, and I was just thinking about it this morning, and I was thinking about how absolutely implicitly embedded right and wrong thinking is from ch from from childhood. That it's what we learn at school, that's good, that's bad, that number 10 was wrong, or you were wrong, they were right. And then I was thinking, Pen, I was remembering about that guy at the airport in the chemist at the airport one time we were travelling and he saw us together and he went, Oh, you're twins, I'm married to a twin. And his immediate next question was, Oh yeah, which what which one of you is the good twin and which one of you is the evil twin? And I and and I was thinking about that this morning, thinking you and I have a really particular lens on polarity thinking because people talk about twins as good, bad, dominant, weaker, or whatever the world. Like we've grown up with this idea that if one of us is something, the other one cannot be that. Yes, and and must be the opposite almost. Yeah, and it's this

How We Learn Right And Wrong

SPEAKER_01 8:50

is kind of magnified in twins, but going back to your point about what you know when we're children, again, it's the nuance of what polarity is. It's not just that we have to be right because we have to get a good grade or whatever it might be in in school, it's that we then define that by the other person being wrong, or the other person being less. Yes. And I wonder if we realise as we are growing up, I mean I think lots of us realise that the the need to be right, and some of us who do development work understand why what why we feel like that. I wonder if we realise how much we've learnt that we must make other people wrong. Yeah. To survive. Yeah, and and we see this a lot. I mean, one one of the big ones where I see this day to day is um on the roads when you're driving. Oh you know, and particularly where I live, there's like a kind of dog leg turn. Yeah. And very often you get kind of stuck there when nobody wants to back up, and it's a tiny, tiny example, and it would take like 10 seconds, but the person who backs up is sort of saying, I'm in the wrong, I'm conceding, and people don't they don't like doing it. Yeah, well, I've got a I've got a really similar example, and I've tested it. This is my little polarity road road rage experiment. I've got a very tight corner through a very the old village where I live, yeah. And if I'm driving down into the village around that corner, and I've come across on that corner, it's very tight for two cars, and I've had somebody coming up through the village around the corner who beeps their horn at me because they say, You're wrong, you need to get in tighter on that curve as you come down into the village. And I've equally been driving up through the village, and I've had someone coming down the other way who've beat me and said, You've got to get over to the other side, you're wrong. The rules change. The rules change it doesn't it, it's not exactly it's not an objective rule about how the right and wrong way to drive through that narrow bit. It's about you, the other person, must be wrong because I must be right. And I'm like so now it just makes me laugh because I'm like, there's no there's nothing for us to hold on to objectively, so it's just the mood you're in, really. Yeah. So we're gonna look at this, and I I guess we would say, as we say very often in lots of topics we look at, you know, don't self-judge. You know, there are very good reasons why we end up kind of in this in this mindset. And we're gonna talk about what the fairly significant downsides are to polarity thinking. I mean, there's an element of it, you know, if you go right back to bases, there's an element of survival in it, of course, in terms of lots of lots of our designs and design flaws, if you like, sort of stem back to to survival. Um, but there really are some downsides to it. Well, it's actually it's making me think it's very young thinking, isn't it? And that's not and that's not to patronise it, because we we all I was thinking about stories from a very, very young age. You know, the stories that we get read as a child, you know, we we get read stories that have a goody and a baddie, that have a hero and a villain. We don't get read stories where everyone's kind of in the grey area, and when there's you know, when the story finishes, well, you know, it was kind of okay for that person, but that, but you know, that was the downside, or it kind of was okay for that person, but that was a downside. We want the really clear, we want the kind of Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader. Of course, in adult novels, often you get a little bit more ambiguity, but even as adults, we can find that frustrating, you know, we that we still like those stories that sell in. There's good and bad in the world. And of course, we see politicians doing it, we see it in kind of um if you're part of a tribe or a clan, not clam um or an organization. Uh, super segue me there, because I think clam and clan must be a super segue. Um, but of course, in organizations, you know, we'll we'll make the competitor bad. Yeah. You know, and then of course, people leave organizations, go and work for a competitor, and go, oh, these people they're actually quite nice. I really like their re-thoughts. Yeah, but that would have been a good idea to incorporate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. Totally. Okay, so shall we talk about? So I'm right, you're wrong, the polarity trap is holding

Road Rage And Workplace Gridlock

SPEAKER_01 13:11

you back. So here's a phrase that I think we can probably all recognise in relationship and dialogue. I just don't understand how they can think that. Yeah. Or an alternative might be I would never do that or think that. So that's when we're, if not in, definitely on the road to polarity thinking. I cannot conceive of why they must think that. And already we're going down the road of so it must be wrong or bad. And it's one of the most destructive patterns in leadership and relationship. And we're going to talk about both at work and in our personal lives. And you've you've done a lot of work historically with reference to the research by the Gottman Institute, which really looks at what makes marriages and partnerships and relationships successful. And this is such a key part of what this is why it's so important, Phil, because it's not just about teamwork, innovation, collaboration, leadership. It literally is the thing that will make or break a personal relationship. Yeah, absolutely. And once you see it, you will just start noticing it everywhere. It's everywhere, everywhere. Like we say, it's on the road, it's um, you know, it's in the shop when someone bumps into you, it's in your teams, it's in your relationships, it's definitely in your teenage kids. So here is the trap. I'm gonna name the trap and then I'm gonna pass over to you. What's interesting about polarity thinking, if we think about all the ideas and possibilities in the world and the universe, polarity thinking gets us caught in a trap where there are only, there must only be two possibilities. And I as I say it and mine's the best. And mine's the best or the right one. And as I say, I'm sort of laughing because of course our lovely prefrontal cortexes, our wonderful rational brains know that so much of the time there cannot only be two choices to live or to think. Like it's it's so reductive, and yet this is what the polarity thinking does. It absolutely roots as it takes us right down to the bottom of the sort of ladder of thinking, and there is either a right or a wrong, and it feels obvious to us, it feels true to us, it feels like it's an absolute truth, it's a must, and it pretty much always presents us with a false choice. Yes, it is a false choice that that person must be wrong, and I must be right. So we're gonna start by building awareness today so you can recognise it. Exactly. So, really understanding what polarity is and the traps that it creates for us, and as I said a number of times already on this podcast, the cost, the cost, the cost. So, this is backed by lots of research. Personally and professionally, there is a real, real cost to this. Uh, it kind of also ties into some of the costs that the ego can present. We might we might touch on the ego either in this episode or the next one. How we can spot it, because once you're kind of entrenched in your position, I'm right, it's so obvious to me. I if I if I just keep talking, you will eventually understand the truth. Um, and the other person feels the same. So, how to spot when you're in those kind of entrenched polarity situations uh before it escalates out of control.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

Um, and then we'll talk in the next episode about how to actually break free. So, this this episode is much more about what it is, what the cost is, and how to spot it. And then next time we'll talk much more about some of the tips and tools to get free of it. So, what is polarity thinking? But you've you've done a lot with this, Phil, and I love the fact that you bring it into your coaching and your therapy work as well, and I'm I'm definitely sort of thinking about this. As Philip said it's a false choice, right, wrong, I'm I'm right, you're wrong. And very often it will be a position that is based on previous beliefs that we've had we've got or a partial view of the world, uh, we won't have listened to somebody else, so again, we go down this kind of false choice route. And what can happen is is as we said, two people get kind of locked in to their position. So, as I said before, a really good example of this. If you've ever sat on a narrow English country lane and it's just a single track wide enough for two cars, uh, and you're just sitting there looking at each other, the two drivers, and both of you think the other person should back up because they've got you know a chance to turn around sooner than you're whatever it might be. And also you'll come up with all sorts of reasons that but because of because my car's bigger, it's gonna be easier for them, or they have they saw me first, or I I know there's no yeah, there's somewhere to turn down there, whatever it might be. That is a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant example. And if that's ever happened to you, the longer you have sat in there, the more you will notice how absolutely infuriated you will become, as will the other driver, because while you're sitting there, you're not probably thinking, Oh, I wonder if that driver's a bit nervous, or I wonder if they're feeling like they haven't seen a space to back up for a couple of miles, or you will be thinking or they've got an emergency, yeah. You'll be thinking about your own position, and the other driver will be doing the same. And that's a brilliant example of getting locked into our positions and getting really, really furious. Yeah, yeah, which which or or they're not driving their own car. Exactly, exactly, or they might be a new driver, whatever, whatever it might be. Um, so we can we get locked in, we see our own position even more and more. We get we get sort of much clearer on uh why we're right and they're wrong. And as the conflict, as the sort of entrenchment continues, conflict can then arise. Um, I mean, I guess occasionally it could be that the drivers get out of the car and start actually having a kind of a fight. There was a video that went viral, wasn't there, a few years ago, of two cars who'd come in opposite directions over a narrow stone bridge in a kind of farming um kind of uh region, I think, maybe the north of England, and they steal their time. Nobody was gonna move. It's insane, isn't it? It's insane. And we talk about this kind of lightly in terms of you know driving on a narrow road, but of course, if you think about how much time you spend internally in conversations at your organization versus perhaps externally, you'll you'll probably recognise that a lot of it is around because there are there are there is a pull on resources, an internal pull on resources, an internal pull on performance, results, whatever it might be. So we can get really locked. When you said that, of course, there's two versions of internally, you know, there's internally organizations, absolutely such a waste of time, such a waste of a leadership's time and resources, and we'll sort of come on to that as well, what what cultures allow. And of course, we can think about it internally in ourselves because part of what I'm you know, what the conversations I'm often having in the therapy room or or in with a coaching client is the amount of ruminating time that they're having the conversation and the argument and the and and angry um in their own heads. So it takes up, it's like you know, we get we get a resident in our own head of this polarity thing. Which of course, which of course doubles down again because once we've got all that sort of cortisol flooding the prefrontal cortex with our frustration, we can't even, we can't, there's not, there's no chance of listening to the other person's point of view. So we were already not really listening to them, but now there's absolutely no chance just because of the body chemistry. Exactly. And let's domino that then. Let's say I've got some issue going on with someone else or someone at work. I'm thinking about it, thinking about it, thinking about it. I'm raging in my own head, polarity, polarity, I'm right, I'm right, they're wrong, they're wrong. My cortisol is up. I get in the car, I drive into the village, someone comes around the corner in the wrong way, and now they have to be wrong because my cortisol is. It's over. And of course, what we then do, of course, is is because of how the how the body is feeling, it's not just the situation, the issue, the topic where we're we're in that polarity of I've got the right position or the right idea. The person themselves start becoming a wrong person, awful person, I'm a really good person. So this is this is where we go. This is where we go. Um, so where does the conversation end? Well, sometimes it doesn't end at all. Uh, those people might still be sitting on the bridge, uh, we might just get completely entrenched, we might just walk away, we might lose opportunities. Uh, we might end up kind of sort of fighting literally to the death where one person's right, one person's wrong, and one person wins. It can feel like a victory, we've possibly damaged a relationship, possibly also missed out on opportunities and an alternative solution, or we can end up compromising, which may be okay. Okay, very often no one is satisfied with a compromise and actually no one is fully bought in and committed to it either. It's making me think of some relationship mediation or neighbour disputes where I mean neighbour disputes can I mean they can absolutely spiral, can't they? And with that polarity thinking. And then even if you compromise but no one's happy, then you end up with that ongoing sort of and and generational sort of you know, Montagues and Capulets, rumbling, Romeo and Juliet, rumbling, rumbling, rumbling, it just carries on. Yeah. Yeah. I will say at the end of all of this that um, as I said before, don't be too hard on yourself. You know, this is a part of our natural sort of nature, if you like, in terms of it was useful to be right, in terms of survival. You know, if there was a sort of something to eat on the ground and you thought it was poisonous and the other person didn't, like that was a pretty important decision to be right or wrong about. And secondly, in terms of our conditioning, so we're very, very conditioned, um, often in family dynamics, but very often at school as well. No criticism of the education system, it's just again being educated, it's very useful for people to understand how to fight find right answers and to want to be right. Uh, that is part of how we how we learn to get educated. So go easy on ourselves. It's it's not that we it's not that we have character flaws, it's it's part of how we operate, how we've been conditioned, and and how it's useful for human beings to operate, and that polarity when it shows up in certain situations is incredibly unhelpful. You know what you just made me think of in families and in teams, as a parent or a caretaker, or you know, you might be an aunt, um, or as a leader or an uncle, let's say you've got someone who's more similar to you generally in their way of thinking, you know, this is a problem in recruitment, or emotionally more attuned to you, then you're more likely to to see what's right about their opinion against someone, or you know, you've got an easier child, let's say, and we can get really blinded by it as leaders and I guess as you know, just people in general. And a really good I do this exercise sometimes with certain politicians in the world, where if I imagine swapping them out, if they've said or done something that I think is absolutely repulsive, if I swap them out for somebody I admire, do I feel the same? Yeah. And usually I don't. Usually I even if I don't agree with it, I don't feel as emotionally strong about it, or you know, as kind of vehement. So we can get caught in that relational piece, that bias as well, which isn't really about even the opinion. We've got caught in a polarity before we've even got to the idea. We've got caught in the polarity of our preferences in terms of people. Um 100%. Okay, so great. So let's make it concrete. Let's understand the

The Boston Matrix Of Polarity

SPEAKER_01 24:57

model because we're going to use this even more in episode two to break free. Break into song there, Phil. Pen. Literally anytime. The the song door, the the West End musical door is always open to you. I just want you to know always open, always open. Um, I sort of now want to hear that song. I think I need, do I need a vacuum cleaner for this? I've got an image of Freddie Mercury. Yeah, sort of rollers in his hair pushing a vacuum cleaner. So have I got the right song? I think it is the right song. Yeah. I want to break free, because he's he's doing the sort of housewife thing, is he, sort of 70s housewife? Yeah, well done, tick. If if we were doing some sort of pop integration Venn diagram of Ford's podcast. I would have Dietchi Punty. And Queen, you'd have 10 points right there, Penn. Okay, di point. So, Penn, we're gonna look at Polarity Thinking, the Polarity Model, with one of your favourite shaped models, the Boston Matrix. Everything in the whole universe should be able to fit into a Boston Matrix, Phil. I think we call that polarity thinking. If I took if I take the other end and say nothing should go into a Boston Matrix, we're right there. Okay. So, Boston Matrix. Uh, two by two squares. So, like uh, what would be the equivalent? I'm thinking of uh Mr. Gipling's Battenberg cakes, but that's such an English reference. Very, very English. Very British. But basically, you've got a square cut into four. Well, yeah, we're at we're at the World Cup at the moment, so let's kind of think about lots of Scandinavian flags. Okay, so basically a cross in the middle of the St George's Cross or the Scandy flags, exactly. Okay, yeah. Right, we've got it. Okay. Uh, or it's a very small portion of the amount of brownies your daughter just cooked at my house. Yes, four of them. She did 16, so she did four Boston Matrixes. Okay, right. Right, I think we've got it. So, in that Boston Matrix, in the top left, you've got I am right, and in the top right, you've got you are wrong. So we've got right and wrong. So let's just stop there. Let's stop exactly. So we are gonna actually stop there. I'm gonna do those two, and then I'm gonna tell you what would be in the Boston. We don't need, we don't need the Boston. We don't need the bottom two. We're gonna exactly we're gonna stuck. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

This is a really I'm right, you're wrong.

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Exactly, I'm right, you're wrong. So you can already imagine this Boston Matrix as a piece of paper that usually you only have access to those two blocks. But there is a fold, there is a folded bit behind it. If you fold it out, there's a whole other section. But most of us, most of the a lot of the time, are going to be like that. Don't look at that, exactly. So I am right, top left. I am right. Favourite, favorite box. Now, this is where we start, and of course, where we get stuck. This is my values, needs, and beliefs. So let's give an example. I really, really love uh innovation and change in an organization. So I need to constantly innovating, see rapid change, not just respond to the markets, I want to be ahead of the market. I am someone who wants to go, go, go, fix it on route, entrepreneurial, startup mindset. My values, needs, and beliefs are right in there. The upsides and strengths of my position is boy, are we gonna be ahead of the curve. We are gonna run ahead of this market, we are gonna be fast, agile, people don't want to come to us, we're exciting, we've always got something new to tell our customers. What I need others to understand is the third thing in here. So it's my values, needs and beliefs, number one. Number two, the upsides and strengths of my position. So we're gonna be kind of future-proof. And number three is what I need others to understand. And in that case, what I need others to understand is firstly, I am not somebody who can operate um in a slow way. But but mainly, you need to understand that if we don't move and change this quickly, if we don't take these kind of risks, we are all out of a job. We not only out of a job, we'll never get hired again, the market's really difficult, and uh everything. This is how the world works, kind of. This is how the world works, you're an idiot, we'll all crumble to dust and and uh we'll be nothing. You know, the competitors will will take over. So that's we'll we'll be the we'll be we'll be the blockbuster or kodak of the training. We'll be the blockbuster or kodak. So that's where I am. I'm like, this is what I and this is the only way to run a company. Let's be clear. This is this is the right way, and I'm feeling a little recognition with this box. Okay. On the other side, in the right, top right hand, you are wrong. So we're still in it. Is it all from my perspective, and I'm looking at you, Penn, and you're saying, Oh, pop those brakes on, Philippa. We need to really assess the risk here. Things seem to be going okay. Yeah, things are okay. We want to kind of shore up some some some capital, let's not overspend. The technology's changing really quickly. How do we know we're gonna invest in the right thing? We we need some stability in order to scale, we need rule, we need procedures, we need to be organized, we need process, exactly. So consistency. Exactly. So now we're still from my perspective though, so I I can feel Pen, you're trying to make the case for for what you want there. But I'm in my perspective, and what I instinctively focus on, in your view, is what's wrong about it. And that is the so the downsides and flaws, not as in flaws, ceilings, as in errors in your position that I see, which is slow, bit harsh, bit hard. Yeah. So downsides and flaws. I see you, you're gonna stagnate, you're gonna get way behind, you're gonna be caught in those processes and those procedures. What I also see, number two, is what's missing and unreasonable about it is, and what I see is missing is meeting the pace of change of the world today. I mean, you are you are you're working in some sort of Victorian mindset as far as I'm concerned. And it's so unreasonable because all you can think about is your is your numbers on your little spreadsheet, and all I'm thinking about is market share and you know customers and experience. You can already see how arguments could erupt. Exactly, Ben. I mean, that's what I that's what I love about this is it's it's very, very easy to see. It's it's harder, of course, for us to break free, which is what we're gonna talk about in the next episode. But we you can see exactly as you say, how I mean, look how energized I am. Even giving an example how quickly. I'm feeling a little attacked over there. Hang on a minute. Exactly. And the third thing that I see as wrong about your position, Penn, is I'm too busy trying to get my view to be seen that I can't even really hear yours anyway. So you're wrong before we've even started because because my And I haven't even got time to listen to how wrong you are. Yeah, exactly. How wrong, exactly, how wrong you are because because right from the get-go, as soon as I know that you haven't got my opinion, I need to convince you why you need my opinion. So I'm not really even that interested in yours. So that's that's the trap at the top, and you can really feel like we talk about this a lot in in the exercise word at a time we do in improv. If the only solid reality you've got is the one in your head, you are going to fight to the death for it. So someone else coming in with, oh, hold on a minute, have you thought about it? It sets our danger signals off, the nervous system is up, and as you said earlier, the cortisol is up, and we go into that literally that focus thinking where I can only see a snake in the grass or a woolly mammoth I've got to kill. I cannot see anything else that's going on. So let's imagine that was a real 4D meeting, and we just we just we just stuck to the top two boxes on this Boston Matrix that you're right and I'm wrong. Yeah, yeah. Let's imagine also that we're under a bit of time pressure and or somebody is more senior or more dominant. Um, pop the hierarchy in what's what's good what's gonna happen here? What's gonna happen here? So I can tell you that my shackles would be up. So do you want to do that? Emotionals for anybody. English with a second language. Yeah, so it's like the little kind of hairs on the back of your neck go up. So the so you're you may not display it externally. It's like when a cat kind of goes into a sort of a clawed sort of arch, like a kind of threat. Yeah, so the emotions are really racing uh through me. Um, but maybe I because of the way that we're only sticking to the top two boxes of this Boston Matrix, I don't have the opportunity to share my thoughts and opinions. Or the authority, or the authority. So I've had to listen to how somebody else is right and not only that, how I'm totally wrong. So you can re you can really understand why people shut down and kind of end up well, I'm not- I'm just I just I just can't I'm not dealing with that person. Yeah, that's right. And Pam, we hear that all the time. Exactly. And let's say, and let's say this is Monday, this is your first meeting on Monday morning, and that's your week now. Yeah, and you might walk away from meeting going, Well, I think that was all clear. Yeah, oh well. That was good. I think we're all on the same, right? I think we're all on the same page. We're all on the same page, yeah, definitely. And they've walked away raging, and of course, this reminds me of the statistic pen that people don't leave companies, they leave bosses or colleagues. That's how true. So you but you can really see how you get how you get stuck. I mean, for me, one of the one of the one of the main things to think about here, I mean, hierarchy is really important, but of course it's the time, the limited time that everybody has to do these meetings. Yeah, you can really understand why if if if we if people start moving into the bottom of half of this Boston Matrix, you'd be thinking, no, no, no, no, we haven't got time for this. Yeah, I haven't got time for that. Exactly. I mean that don't that's that there's a topic for later on about this, about what we allow in cultures and how you know we would talk about it like a um, you know, a design team alliance, you know, how a leader sets the parameters right from the beginning. When we get polarity disagreement, when we get one person thinking they're right, one wrong, this is what we're gonna do. This is how we're gonna operate. Because it's also what you allow in a culture, isn't it? That it just continues. Okay, shall we go to the two, let's unfold.

Unfolding The Bottom Half

SPEAKER_01 35:25

Phil, I think I'm ready to go to the bottom half of this Boston Matrix. So the reason Penn's sort of saying that sort of hesitantly is because the the bottom half of the Boston Matrix are the two boxes that open us up to the opposite of me being right, why I might be wrong. A phrase that most people would absolutely be horrified at. Yeah. And on the other side, underneath their, you know, why we thought they were wrong on the right hand side, the boxes they why they might be right. And can can I can I say something on this and how this model is constructed? Because of course, how it could have been constructed is I'm right, you're wrong. And then it could have been the other person's right, I'm wrong. Yes. And and what that will lead us to is those those two double positions, yeah. Double polarity. So it's not it's not about right, well, I've now stated why I'm right and you're wrong. So okay, we've got 10 minutes left in the meeting. Now I'm gonna give you a chance to state why you're right and I'm wrong. It's not that, it's analysing your initial position in terms of what you might be wrong and right about. And that it's sat it sounds subtle, but it's hugely, hugely important in terms of what this model is trying to do. And I think a bit like the doors always open to you doing um you singing a musical theatre number pen. This this language, this language opens the door because it's saying, it's not saying get in that room where you're wrong, it's saying, oh, do you want to have a look at do you want to just have a look inside this room? Yes, or why you might be wrong or they might be right. And I guess we'll talk more about how we get there on the on the next episode. I guess one thing to say here is that in an ideal world, I guess, we would be so self-aware, we would know this model, and we'd be open that we could self-analyse at the bottom half of this matrix. We could we could we could then sit even on our own and think, well, you know, how might I be wrong and how might they be right? Of course, there may be other ways that we need to get into the bottom half of that matrix if people aren't aren't there or aren't familiar with this with this model. And there and and therein lies the having great friends and great siblings who can very gently and sugar and great leaders sugarcoat you into feeling safe in these spaces, 100%. So I might be wrong, which sits under not a phrase, not a phrase, we're not a phrase we like to use too often. Uh I might be wrong, and this is allowing yourself to look at the downsides of your own thinking. So you might think you might ask these three questions, what am I not seeing here? And I think that's a really accessible question. What am I not seeing? And you and I could definitely talk there about well, I'm I'm not necessarily seeing the cash flow shape over the next six months. So if I saw the cash flow shape over the next six months and you know, a certain period of year different for every company, but let's say there's a sort of Christmas dip or something, and that is gonna dictate the more safety, stability focused person in terms of how much we want to invest in um innovation and change at the moment. So, what am I not seeing? Really useful question, could be really practical. Number two, oh, what fears are driving my position? And I'm gonna add a kind of version of this, which is am I afraid of losing identity here? So, what fears are driving my position might be I need to be seen as somebody who's on top of it and driving. Or what fears are driving my position that we end up going so slowly that nothing happens. So, so our fears will probably be quite polarized as well. What possibly sits in there, Phil, is of course our values and our perspective. So, as an example here, you are somebody who loves to keep up to date with the latest thinking in terms of human development, neuroscience, all of these kind of things. So you'll be thinking, well, this is you know, let's do this, you know, because let's be this let's be this organization. Yeah. Yeah, and of course of course, those sort of drives might be missing, is that other people might not be so in some other people might not be so interested in the latest kind of thinking. They might be kind of basics. Yes, and then the f the final question I might be wrong, is what would I lose by being wrong? And of course, this could be, you know, identity, it could be appreciation, it could be um company value, it could be customers who it could be time and investment you've already made into a new project. Yeah, it could be pride. I mean, yeah. Okay, so that's why that's an exploration of why could what could I be wrong about here? And then on the other side, underneath, we've got why they might be right. And this is the seeing the wisdom, allowing yourself just hypothetically, and I do this a lot in coaching and therapy. I double down, say two or three times, just between you and I here. We are not gonna do anything out there in the world, we're having no conversation with anybody, we're conceding no ground, we're changing nothing, we're just going to play. We're just gonna imagine what if, and that's a that's another safe way to allow people to go here. You know, well, I you know, if you say if you were a leader, you said to somebody, just let's try and think what you know how Bob might be right, and then they say, Well, Bob's absolutely not right. I really know that, and I'm really I'm really sitting with that with you. If we were to imagine, though, just for five minutes, you and I here, not gonna leave this room, if we were to imagine, and you really try and invite them into this thinking, you're gonna ask what could be, what is or could be valid or reasonable in their view? So again, we'll go to their risk aversion. Well, they have got more of an eye on the numbers, or they have more information on what happened to two years ago when we really went on a very fast kind of innovation and research and development and investment phase. And actually, while they protected us from it, they were peddling hard to keep the payroll going. Yeah, yeah. So, what might be valid or reasonable? What need or value is it protecting? Well, the person that we're annoyed with is actually our general counsel, they're our legal, their whole, their whole career is about risk. That is what they do, that is their value, their need. They have to perform their job. It comes down on them if this company suddenly is too exposed or too vulnerable financially. So that feels really important, you know, because then you can say, well, you were responsible for that. That's why they're protecting this. And then I love this last question. What might their thinking complement? And that's complement C-O-M-P-L-E-M-E-N-T, what might it complement? Well, how might it fit with, how might it be in relationship with mine? And of course, we could think about well, we might slightly change the time scale of that innovation. We might put it into stages that might help somebody who wants stability. We might do reviews, we might actually think about how it could complement is well, if they they want stability, they're risk averse. Actually, we'll use that at those staging posts, those risk checks, we'll use those as chances to check our innovation. They might even be moments where we can actually add to our innovation. So there might be really useful moments of while we're doing the risk check, we'll also have new opportunities of how we can tweak the innovation and the change. So, what might how might they be complemented? How might they work together? So, why we get stuck here? So that's the Boston Matrix. And why we get stuck, and if you want that because we like we like the top half. Because we like the top half, exactly. So, this will all these visuals will be available in worksheets in our uh Managing Difficult Conversations series on 4G on demand in the next couple of months. So, why we get stuck here? Well, I fail to see the wisdom in in their view because I feel threatened. And the reason I feel threatened is if I move towards your position, then I fear what I value will be lost or ignored. So I dig in and you do exactly the same in reverse. So we fear that if we move an inch, that we'll lose everything. And so we each become more and more entrenched. And here's the key, and I think you mentioned this earlier, Pam. As we become more and more entrenched, and we don't use this the second half, the bottom half of this Boston matrix, we we Do not see the whole system. I only see 4D, our organization, as an innovative change-moving organization. I do not see the whole system. I do not see the scaffold and structure of the financial kind of mechanisms and kind of safety and scaffolding and all those things that keep us really safe. That kind of management of how we drip feed resources into moving the organization. I stop seeing that. I just, I'm just running, running, running down the track, and I'm not looking at anything else. And this feels like the one of the really key bits about polarity thinking that can be a real way to break free is to realise that we stop seeing the whole thing.

The Real Costs Of Polarity

SPEAKER_01 44:47

Yeah. And of course, this can really give us tunnel vision and really shift our behaviours in terms of the relationships that we're in. Some of the behaviours are, um, and this we we call them sort of the four horsemen of a stuck polarity. So some of the behaviours are um complaining. And when you spoke earlier about that kind of rumination in our heads when we get kind of frustrated, we will absolutely go and take those to the water cooler or the coffee machine, or or perhaps even to the person in front of us, or we see escalation in organisations. So we really, really complain about other people's behaviours and their positions because we simply want to get back up to that top half of the Boston Matrix. So really, really complaining, often voiced to third parties instead of a very healthy conversation with the person in front of us. Uh, fear, so um a lovely quote by Carl Jung we all feel that the opposite of our own highest principle must be purely destructive, deadly, and evil. We refuse to endow it with any positive life force. Hence we avoid and fear it. So this sort of unspoken anxiety about what would go wrong if I don't win in my position. Um, so we must kind of, what's the word? We must kind of make the other side evil and and wrong and destructive. Yeah, sort of demonise. And Penn, this makes of the um of the ego that to not underestimate, while part of us knows it's just an argument about where we should put the coffee machine in the office, when we get caught like this, our ego and our kind of and our nervous system, it feels like life and death. Yeah, you know, that's why we end up with so much fear around, like you say, conceding on a narrow road. Because the body goes into this, I will be annihilated if I don't win this. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Uh, compromise, which we've mentioned, so compromise that nobody right likes or nobody actually uh commits to and actually isn't a great solution for anybody, and as you said, Philip, a loss loss of systemic view, so really that kind of tunnel vision and losing sight of larger purpose, what the system needs, what we're all trying to serve together. So complaints, fear, compromise, and loss of systemic view. And compromise, I mean, maybe very occasionally can be useful, but it's not necessary. It may be necessary sometimes, but yeah, maybe that's all you've got sometimes. Compromise, I I think often stems from the fact that we've kind of left it too late to get everybody's viewpoints and a systemic viewpoint on board. We've got so far down the line that we haven't kind of integrated people's thinking, come up with other solutions. So we've just got what we've got on the table. Let's take a bit of yours, let's take a bit of mine, and and nobody kind of wins. And I think if I think about your world of improvisation, right from the beginning, you've got to integrate everything that's going on in order to expand and push that scene into something interesting. Otherwise, you're gonna you get boxed into a corner, don't you? That's when you have to compromise your way out of it. That's right, and you've got nowhere to go, and you have to think you have you have to, you know, you have to create some sort of kind of fudgy. Yeah, fudge it that no one's happy with because we've turned the invisible gun you're holding at me because suddenly it's impossible that I die or whatever it is in the scene, and now that has to be a chocolate bar, and everyone's a bit like, oh, that's a bit naff. But you're right, you actually have to be integrating. It's making me think of sort of like I don't know if it's a good analogy, but you know, if you don't all agree on the cake recipe up front, then you're just all eating a cake that you hate, and it's like oh, we should we should have thought about that earlier. Yeah, and you can't chuck an egg in at the last minute, you know. Yeah, exactly, exactly as your daughter said to me baking yesterday. Yeah, it doesn't work. Um so so where we want to get get from and to is from an either or to a both and, and that is so the world of improv, Pen. It's there's such simple words, both and and they can be absolutely life-changing. No one has to lose. What's the both and here? Yeah. What a few stats there, Pen. Yeah, so uh we we would not put this in the category of a minor communication glitch. This really is a way of it's a mindset, it's a way of thinking, and it's incredibly expensive and energy draining, not to mention relationship busting. It leads to wars. I mean, it's it's it's everything, isn't it? Exactly. So um 65% of employee performance problems are attributed to unresolved interpersonal conflict. This is not about skill and capability. Uh at least 2.8 hours a week on average, this was done in the US. Um, time is spent dealing with conflict. I think that's much higher for leaders. There's an annual cost, again, this was done in the US of um nearly $360 billion a year in terms of lost productivity, conflict, people turnover, management time lost in the workplace. And from the work of Patrick Lencioni, which we love, the number one, number one, number one reason cited for team dysfunction is artificial harmony. And this is very much the state place where people or teams stay polarized privately, avoid the dialogue, and that artificial harmony is just kind of nodding along and saying, okay. You know, when you hear people's voices go slightly higher pitched, no, it's fine, no, it's fine, it's fine. Or they just go silent, or they just go silent, but yeah, there's real signals when you're in artificial harmony, you can tell, you know, the fixed grin. No, yeah, it's great, it's great. And you know, yeah, and it it can really lead to decision paralysis because we we don't agree, we don't all and or we want to avoid the conflict, or it can lead to that kind of artificial harmony where decisions are made but people aren't really uh bought into it. It's also a real driver of talent turnover, so talent attrition. You know, people do tend to leave difficult dynamics as opposed to the roles that they're doing. Ain't that the truth? People exactly, people don't leave the institution of marriage, they leave the they leave the person that they find difficult. Yeah, exactly. The polarity. I mean, as as the work of the Gottman Institute highlighted, you know, they did an enormous amount of work in terms of relationships, started with uh personal relationships, marriages, they've sort of extrapolated their work uh into the workplace. But we know from the work of the John Gottman Institute that 69% of relationship conflict is about perpetual, perpetual, unresolved differences in values and personality. So polarity, I'm right, you're wrong. And those arguments are just had again and again and again and again because the individuals don't take the time or aren't aware that they need to look at that bottom half of that Boston matrix. We've also said this before on this podcast, is it this is a stat I absolutely love. But those behaviours that then come to the fore when we get entrenched in the polarity, when those behaviours are on display, the work of the Gottman team could predict with 94% accuracy whether married couples would stay together or not. So whether whether they are so entrenched in their right and wrong, and then the sort of contemptuous or stonewalling behaviours that are displayed will mean that the relationship is just going to continue to get damaged. It's doomed, doomed from the beginning, Penn. Doomed, doomed, doom, doom. So I'd really I'd really offer to take a look at um what what Gottman calls the four horsemen in terms of those behaviours, and it really does come down to unresolved conflict and that polarity. So definitely take a look at that. So it's important, it's really, really important, and it's not it's really not people looking at solving problems, it's people stuck in perpetual rooted beliefs and differences that they just get stuck in. They just get and there's often no underlying problem that sits underneath it. It's almost like you've just got to you've just got to come round to my way of thinking more generally. Yeah. And I love that he I love that they that some of the couples, the relationships they see as successful, which I think this is so applicable to work, isn't trying to convince the other person to your way of thinking, it's having a dialogue about gridlock. It's saying we're stuck here, we're both in our own positions, and once you've opened that door, you've acknowledged, you've you've Penn, you've unfolded the flap

Six Awareness Tools Plus 4D

SPEAKER_01 53:06

on that bottom half of the Boston Matrix, haven't you? Yeah. And it starts to be about polarity integration, it starts to be about it's a different dialogue. Now we're gonna look at some tools to finish, and before we do that, I want to say why this really matters, and I'm gonna give three reasons why this is so important. Firstly, the false polarization, and what I mean by that is when there's someone that we really disagree with, when we're in a polarity response with somebody, research tells us that we are really, really likely to overestimate how extreme and unreasonable the other person's viewpoint is, and you can see this playing out in politics, you know, because we've got become more polarized, we really demonise people at the other end of the spectrum. Now, you know, in some in some um incidences, you know, that's that may be relevant, there may be dangerous thinking out there, but even in the kind of more central, even when you know when we're not quite as extreme, we are much more likely to think the other person is really like really polarizing the thinking, like really extreme, dangerous, you know, wrong. So we have this kind of bias towards someone who thinks the opposite of us must be like an extremist, definitely extremist. The second thing, or really stupid, or really stupid, you know, this is fun. But didn't I uh you know, I think a world leader said recently, you either understand this or you're stupid. And I was like, you know, and I remember I remember a colleague of of mine years ago saying to me, saying to me, There's only one way to think about this, and I was like, I think I think we're in polarity here because there clearly isn't only one way to think about it. The second thing of why this is really important is social media at the moment and the algorithms, that our kind of town square and how ideas get amplified is are driven by algorithms, and so social media is innately polarising and 100%. It's just so important to recognise this because it means we have to work super, super hard to look at look to look at the other side of things or to get to the middle. You know, one of the problems with that, I feel is even if we recognise it, which which lots of us don't know this terminology, lots of us haven't studied these kind of things, but even if we did, and certainly if we if we don't, it's so satisfying being in that um in that sort of echo chamber, isn't it? Penn, you've brought up something really important here. I'm just gonna say number three, and then I'm gonna mention something because it this is a big thing that comes up in um therapeutic work. Um, the third reason why this is really important, and this is very simple, is just that it scales. As Penelope said earlier, it scales from your relationship with your family and friends right up to globally, through organisations, leaders, it's just at every level. We're doing it at every level, from toddlers in a playground right up to world leaders and wars. So it's just everywhere. You've said something really important there, Pen, and um thank you, because it's this is this is actually what led me into the um polarity work was a conversation I had with somebody, and I recognised, I said, Oh, I want to stay in the anger, it's so much nicer. And she laughed and she said, Isn't it though? Isn't it easier? Isn't it easier to stay in anger or justified anger? Justified anger or collapse into defeat and victim. The polarities are easier, and the the messy middle is tough, the integration is more complex, and it takes more thinking and it takes more intelligence and more development. Polarities are easy if you have caught yourself in a polarity response. I'm afraid, and look, I stand here with you, it's the lazy response, it's so much easier, particularly if you can avoid being in contact or or dialogue with people who hold an opposite people. Which is which is which is becoming easier, and you know, this again it it's yes in the social media world, you 100% can. In the workplace, I do, you know, I do have conversations with people who talk about well, if I just move to another company, and it's it's like if if I can get away from the people who don't understand my point of view, it'll all be okay. You well might find some harmony, but a couple of things. F first of all, you're definitely narrowing your vision and your opportunities, and secondly, it's so unlikely that you won't meet anybody again in in another organisation or another group that has a different point of view. Penn, I couldn't agree more, and I've had similar conversations, and I have to say I'm really honest with people when they say I, you know, maybe if I just go to another team or another company, and I'm like, there's two problems with that. One is the phrase, you know, we I think we use it in relationships, you know, but same shit, different team, because of number two, which is you gotta take yourself with you. Take yourself with you. And the problem is we take the dynamics with us, you know. I mean, how many conversations have we had with clients who say, What's really weird is this is the third organization where this has been happening to me. And it's always somebody isn't somebody. Always somebody, it's the third time I've met the most chilling person ever to say, you know, you are 50% of this. Okay, so let's look at some. I just love that so much, Penn. I mean, you can you you know, this is the problem. You have to take yourself with you to that new job. Um, so let's look at some tools, Penn. So, this first one, remember, this is about raising awareness. We look at integration tools and how we have the dialogue more in the next episode. This is how you how you become aware of I'm got I've got stuck in polarity thinking, andor they have. Yeah, and I would really offer don't suddenly think you've got to become sort of some sort of Dalai Lama systemic view holding, uh, you know, amazing kind of guru. We are human. And there are some nice tips in here for just hold the word polarity in your head and just watch out for these. Some of them are really, really tangible, and some of them are a little bit more about sort of sensing and feeling. So, whatever suits you most. We're gonna give six tools and then I'm gonna give the 4D super tool at the end. Yeah, and just remember, next time on the next episode, we will give you, we'll talk much more about how to actually enter into that dialogue and move at move through uh and out of polarity. But these are awareness raises. So, number one, the pronoun check, this is one of my favourites. This is yours, Pen. I love it, love it, love it. Uh so we have a multi-perspective map that we use uh at 4D. It's another Boston matrix. So using I, you, we, it. If you are stuck in the top half, it maps beautifully. If you're hearing language like I and you, very likely the I is your justified position, and the you is I need to tell you what you need to know or you're wrong. So watch the I and the U. Also watch language like you always, you never. These are indications that you're really trying to sweep aside somebody else's uh viewpoint. So language, language, language, watch out for it in terms of polarity. We can be a really useful way to spot that you're you're not in polarity or sh or shift slightly. So, really, really notice the pronouns that you're using. That's my absolute number one tip. The second one is the upside-downside audit, and this is really about taking a pause and in a disagreement. Can you ask yourself, am I currently seeing just the upside of my position and the downside of theirs? So if you find yourself when you're talking about your position, that everything that you're saying is positive, opportunity, great, and everything that you're saying about their position is negative, risky downside, very likely you're caught in that trap. It's so unlikely, it's so unlikely that there is genuinely two positions where one is 100% positive and the other is 100% negative. So just watch out for that. Are you stating your position from the positive only and their position from the negative only? And that's not about saying, well, I must be wrong. Again, it's just noticing the language and the positioning that you're taking to just to think about could I be a little bit caught in the trap here. Well, it comes from your world of you know, having trained as an a as a chartered accountant pen. You know, the audit is it's just the check, you know, the the organisation might not change anything about what they do, but you're just having a check. Just giving some advice, exactly. Exactly. Just you know, exactly, just uh revealing some things. Um okay, number three is listen for the fear beneath the position. And I love this one because it is so rarely about the issue, it is pretty much always about the fear. So, can you ask yourself what's really going on underneath here? If their position holds, if we go with their idea or we go more towards what they're thinking, what am I really afraid of? Am I afraid of being seen as wrong or stupid? Am I afraid of um losing control or am I afraid that things will fall apart? If you can name the fear even just to yourself, then you can start to loosen up the entrenchment, the position that you're in, because it's probably more about your fear than the actual outcome. And I think another one of the things we can do here is replace the person that maybe you find irritating with someone you really love, and your fear might lessen, and you can start to identify how fearful you are in this relationship. I mean, Penn, that really speaks to our ego work, doesn't it? The fears underneath the ego, you know, will I be liked, will I be, you know, uh disrespected, um, you know, will I be thought of as stupid? Whatever it is. Number four is spot it in others. So look for the entrenchment, polarity entrenchment signals in others. Watch out for these things. Watch out for repetition. When somebody keeps repeating themselves, it usually means they're stuck and entrenched rather than they're finding new evidence or new information. Watch out for contempt or eye rolling, sarcasm, sweeping character judgments like you always or you never. These are really predicting polarity gridlock. Yeah. Much more than the content of the actual conversation or disagreement. Look for those signals underneath. They'll tell you that you're in a polarity entrenchment. Number five, this is one of my favourites, is I'll call it the body bell. Just notice those signals. Again, we're going to the nervous system, heart rate, tension, clenched jaw, clenched fists, shoulders, any of those body signals that are telling you you're getting locked. The body is while it's uncomfortable and it's tough, because it's less complex in terms of our thinking can keep justifying a position, our body, we can feel it. We can just feel it. And that's that's a good access point to say, oh, something's going on here, you know, we're not in a free-flow dialogue here. It's a good signaler, yeah. Exactly. Number six, the both and quick check before you respond to something that you disagree with or that you really feel the opposite about. Can you ask yourself this question? Is there a version? Is there a version of this where we are both partially right? And this makes me think of the world work of Ken Wilbur and integral theory, that systems lens, that second-tier yellow systems thinking, everyone is partially right. There's something in what most people say that actually can feed in to the um to the truth, to the to the to the place we want to get to, to the whole, to the whole system. And even 10 seconds of asking that question, is there a version here where we could both be partially right? Will really change your state and possibly your next sentence. So we're not giving you those answers yet, we're not giving you those solutions because we're gonna move into that in episode two in that dialogue. Um the last thing I want to give you here, which is the super tool, which brings all of this together really, is we always talk in a polarity way. We often, often, always talk about the 4D model, the 4D awareness. So you're gonna check for what's your intention here at the center of the donut? Is my intention here to win, or is it to find an integrated solution? That's a really quick check. Then the circle outside of that broken into three, which is physical, emotional, intellectual. What's my thinking? Have I got stuck in polarity thinking? Number two, emotional, am I feeling fear or anger? And number three, the physical. Have I got triggers going on in my body that can tell me that something's going on here in terms of polarization? And then the outer two, of course, is the relationship and the culture. The relationship, how do I really feel about this person? If it was someone else, would I feel differently? And culture really is. I think it's two things on that. One is as a leader, what am I allowing in this culture? Am I am I allowing polarity responses in this culture? And the other thing on environment is also am I doing this by email or text? Or am I picking up the phone? And if I'm picking up the phone or I'm going to see the person, I'm making a vote to move away from polarity. Polarity thinking because I want to dial up the importance of us meeting face to face or speaking. Actual dialogue, yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, polarity thinking is a false choice. I think this is a really, really nice, simple thing to keep in mind when you're in that state of I'm right there wrong, you are very likely in a position of false choice. So we need to kind of open out the funnel of um of information and choices that we have. Shows up everywhere: personal relationships, home, work, driving down the road. So it shows up everywhere, and the data is absolutely unambiguous. It matters, it matters, it matters, it matters. Whilst we're not judging ourselves on this, it's part of how we have been kind of uh wired. The cost to us, both personally and organisationally, is absolutely huge in terms of literally dollars, productivity, opportunities, relationships, etc. etc. So it's it's really important in terms of being aware of it and doing something about it. And we'll talk much more about this next time. But the way out is not is not necessarily compromise, sometimes that's your only option, but ideally, you will be much more about integration, so either or both, and what what's interesting in their point of view, what's interesting in my point of view. Exactly. And we'll talk much more about that next time. Yeah, we will. So next time we're really going to be starting with what are the what are the keys to to help us and then break away from polarity thinking. And the first one, of course, is we need to feel heard, and the second one is we need reassurance that our our view and our value is going to be included in this conversation, is going to be valued in itself. But we can't move until that happens. And and part of the reason where we get stuck is we're just not, we're just not feeling heard or we're just not listening. So a quick recap of the six tools plus the super tool, and um, they are the pronoun check, number one, number two, the upside-downside audit. Number three, listen for the fear underneath. Number four, spotting the polarity entrenchment in others. Number five, the body bell, your own body signals nervous system, and number six, looking for the both and what version of this where we could could we both be partially right, and then of course, our 4D super tool, where you can scan in 4D what's my intention, what's going on uh intellectually, emotionally, physically, what's the relationship like, and what in how is the environment helping or holding me back here? So, in our next episode, we're gonna really

Next Steps And How To Stay In Touch

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get practical, and just a reminder, of course, this is a part of our 4D on-demand digital all access click to buy, you can have the series. It is, it's in there, Phil. It's in there. It's in there. We've got impact storytelling, presentation skills, personal profile, well-being, and we will in the next few weeks have managing difficult conversations. That means that you have got very, very cost-effective, instantly accessible training, 4D training for you and for all your team and your organization. So that was Polarity Thinking. Uh, that was uh how the polarity trap is holding you back, episode one. I love, love, love this work. I'm my intention today, Pen, is to move through the day and to think about like polarity thinking as like a minefield where I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna be really try and be really aware to not step on the polarity minds. Well, I well, I I love this F. Scott Fitzgerald quote that you've put in here, Phil. It's just beautiful. And who wouldn't want to to fulfil this quote? Which is the test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function. Oh, I love it, love it, love it. Men to that. Let's take that through the day. Take care, and uh yeah, we'll see you in our next episode. See you soon. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the 40 Human Being Podcast. We hope you enjoyed the show. Do take on board some of the insights, tools, and tips because every time that you try something new to get back to choice, you are making a vote for the you that you want to become. And I I love that phrase, Pen. I do too. And please do share this episode with somebody that you know would really benefit from the lessons and learnings we've been chatting about today. And of course, if you're interested in more from 4D Human Being, do get in touch. We run workshops, trainings online, in person, conference events and keynotes. We've got the 4D on-demand platform for your whole organization, and we do have a free essentials membership where anybody can sign up for absolutely free to access some of our insights, tools, and tips. So do get in touch with us if you'd like to hear more. We cannot wait to hear from you and to carry on the conversation.